Luther's Men Forum

the love of God

ogonzalez_1@yahoo.com — Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:33:38 GMT

"I am not saying a pastor can’t be about equal rights, only that the larger message needs to be about the love of God through his Son Jesus Christ." Just to point out, how we can about the love of God through Jesus Christ and treat african americans the way we did and still do? That's the point, who Jesus asked, is our neighbor? The problem with many white protestant churches is they can never make the connection between the love of God in Christ and how we treat others, its like we are stuck with this individualized "Jesus love me this I know" so now I can go about my merry way with no thought to what kind of a society I am participating in and how badly we treat others!

MLK DR. or Rev.?

JGraves — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 22:09:52 GMT

If I was to ask almost anyone what Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was about they would say civil rights. Dr. King did many good things, but what did he believe about Jesus. When looking a t kings life his religious beliefs are over-shadowed by his civil campaigns. Dr. King had a dream to help change this nation so whites and blacks would accept each other, but where was his dream about every man women and child knowing Jesus? Like Rev. Jessie Jackson and Rev. Al Sharpton who claim to be ministers, what message did he preach. I never heard from them read your bible, confess your sins and know Jesus. They seem to have other priorities on their mind.

I am not saying a pastor can’t be about equal rights, only that the larger message needs to be about the love of God through his Son Jesus Christ.

Luther's blindness

JGraves — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 23:30:45 GMT

First I would like to give perhaps some back ground on the Jewish tolerance in the Europe. Rodney stark writes in God’s Battalion a survey of the Christian crusades, for the most part Christians in the Europe tolerated and accepted Judaism. The Church understood that the Jews had received a Harding of heart so that the full number of Gentiles may come into the kingdom of God. This doesn’t mean that racism didn’t exist, but as far as the Church was concerned Jews where off limits and were to be accepted and tolerated.

Now as you probably know that during the crusades there were skirmishes that involved Jewish persecution. These out-brakes were condemned by the church and most of Europe. Most of these conflicts happened in Germany. Throughout the last thousand years and perhaps even longer if Jewish persecution broke out it most likely came from Germany.

Luther was a German all the way through, I am not excusing or justifying Luther’s rant about the Jews, but want to say it should be of no surprise that he was blind to this sin in his life.

US and the world

bsmith — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:47:23 GMT

I agree with RTMoore's assessment that execution of US policy generally promotes positive outcomes. If the US is occupying another country, chances are they were already in trouble - as was Haiti in 1915, as is the Middle East today (when are they not in trouble?) Even when the end goal isn't met or the US is meddling in something that some people think they shouldn't, they tend to help more than harm. Why? Because, as much as possible, democracy and capitalism is applied as part of the military duty.

During the US occupation of Haiti, construction abounded. Roads, bridges, phone systems, restored schools and hospitals, clean water...all courtesy of the US. Unfortunately for Haiti, not much has seemingly improved in the last 76 years since FDR (arguably one of the most overrated presidents) recalled the troops. So what does any of this have to do with Christianity? Well, there is strong evidence that points to Christianity being one of, if not the primary source of capitalism and the western civilization as we know it today. For a good source on this, I recommend Rodney Stark's "The Victory of Reason", which traces the rise of capitalism back to the so-called "dark ages".

As for Pat Robertson's comments, which was the original focus of this forum, I believe that his comment was unwise, but not necessarily false. Whether or not the Haitians made a "deal with the devil", who knows (and he should not have been that specific), but it is true that God judges sinful people and uses natural disasters in which to do so. It's in the Old Testament. However, God inflicting Job just to test him is also in the Old Testament. The problem with it is that though it may be true that God "punished" the Haitians via earthquake, it cannot be proven by man and so it makes him sound presumptuous and cold-hearted in the face of tragedy. But really, what is the difference, other than maybe timing, of Pat Robertson's comments and good ol' fashioned turn-or-burn warnings from past preachers such as Jonathan Edwards?

Two kingdom's

ogonzalez_1@yahoo.com — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:26:13 GMT

"The actual execution of US policy generally does promote aggregated positive outcomes for the rest of the world..." I would not agree with this in South America, in Europe American policy after World War II, or perhaps in Japan this can be argued. But its too broad a statement for me to agree with, especially in the Middle East. But the question of what is "christian" policy is a good one, if we are to claim we are a christian nation. I reject that notion just on the historical facts alone. I think Luther's idea of two kingdom's is also important, we are members of the Kingdom of God first, nationalism should never be confused with the kingdom of God. As a church we are first and foremost called to be the church in society. As citizens although we can influence our government we shouldn't try to establish a theocracy here or anywhere else.